Georgia goes to NATO with Ukraine

[Florian]

In December, 2008 Georgia will not accept the proposition to join NATO MAP if the Ukraine’s application is deferred, stated Minister of Foreign Affairs of Georgia Eka Tkeshalashvili after the meeting with her Polish colleague Radoslav Sikorskiy in Warsaw.


“Approaching to NATO together with Ukraine gives us more possibilities,” said the Minister. At the same time Sikorskiy expressed regret that “a purely technical question, NATO MAP is a technical question, gains a political importance”.


“We have a very close strategic partnership with Ukraine. It is our joint effort, and we believe that the perspective is that we go by one road to NATO,” said the Minister, as Liga reports.


As ForUm reported, at the summit in Bucharest in April, NATO high officials stated that they will return to the question of possible joining of Ukraine and Georgia to NATO MAP in December 2008.

source: http://en.for-ua.com/news/2008/06/26/103022.html

[P-N]

That may be a tactical error by Georgia as Ukraine will have to wait until the Black Sea Fleet leaves in 2017 for FULL NATO membership - that said it may not be a stopping point for a NATO MAP as Ukraine has officially told Russia and the world the fleet will be gone in 2017 when the lease expires

[Florian]

It is a very interesting strategy though, and personally I think it is really quite smart from Georgia's perspective to link up with someone in the same position. Will be interesting to see how this evolves!

[P-N]

It is a very old tactic coming from GUAM in 1990's at the disolvement of the USSR when the "GUAM" nations and NATO were in initial negotiations - the GUAM nations are Belarusia, Moldova, Ukraine and Georgia.

As the GUAM nations and NATO have been in negotiations for about 18 years do not expect any radical evolution which has not been on the cards for a number of years.  I cannot see this being a "winning strategy" by Georgia to get a fast tracked MAP to NATO if they are sticking with Ukriane, with the likes of Germany and France still considering the new opportunities with a new Russian premier more important (at least for now) than enlarging NATO onto 2 boarders with Russia and jeopardising any new "opportunities".

They will not have changed their minds from the NATO summit in Romania at the start of 2008 by December 2008.  Germany in particular has just negotiated a gas line direct from Russia to Germany (via the sea to avoid Poland which did not go down well with Poland) so until this has been completed, comissioned and is working there is very little chance of Germany changing it's position in the short term, partiularly in the case of Ukraine.

[mattsh]

Memo to Georgia.

Are you nuts?

You're going to wait for all-new military hardware?  Paid for by USA taxpayers?  Again, are you nuts? 

My advice.  Grab it now.  Do not pass go, do not wait for Ukraine. 

See, the US taxpayers are maxed out.  Have been for many years.  But because the Chinese lend the USA $2 billion a day, most haven't noticed it yet.  But the Chinese are wising up too.  They know they won't get most of their money back and will cut back lending.  Besides, why should the Chinese lend more to the USA?  Many USA consumers can barely afford their house these days.  They can hardly afford to buy more cheap Chinese crap.  If consumers don't send their money to China to buy this stuff, the Chinese won't have any US dollars to lend back.  Next stop for the USA.  Massive devaluation of the dollar.    Soon it will be worth little more than the paper it's printed on. 

Go ahead do it now.  Free military goodies may be a limited time offer. 

[SilverBullet]

Moldova should join the bid too! Good to see that Georgia shows some solidarity with Ukraine, leveraging up the position for the cause of both nations. Georgia could have made the entrance alone at a faster pace. If someone could just kickstart a democratic movement in Belarus too.  A long and dead shot I fear. 

[rjm]

Moldova as a member of NATO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SURELY YOU ARE ON A WIND UP AGAIN?

By the way do you class Georgia as democratic? Judging by their recent election violiations I would say that Russia is more democratic than Sakashvilis Georgia at the moment 

Moldova should join the bid too! Good to see that Georgia shows some solidarity with Ukraine, leveraging up the position for the cause of both nations. Georgia could have made the entrance alone at a faster pace. If someone could just kickstart a democratic movement in Belarus too.  A long and dead shot I fear. 

[P-N]

OK - hands up - who's suprised 

http://www.ukranews.com/eng/article/137083.html

See my previous post in this thread.

[SilverBullet]

I guess both Ukraine and Georgia are on a fast track to NATO now after all. New NATO meeting in November / December 2008 where this is the main topic. Of course Moldova should join too, that could help clean up Transnistra and kick out some Russian "peace troops" there too. As for any corruption comments made about the countries, yes of course there are corruption but that doesn't hinder NATO membership. Look to Bulgaria, a corrupt country who even made EU member. If anyone could turn Belarussia around, sadly enough I must admit that after speaking with some Belarussians this summer I have never met more brain washed people, not only the regular communist attidute but ....extreme communists. They compare themselves with living in a fish bowl, and such fish can not be left in the big open sea (of freedom) since they are not used to it. Perhaps the North Koreans would top them off though. 

[Carlushika]

No, SB, you are wrong. The people of Ukraine are promised a referendum to decide. Being here, it is common knowledge the people will be voting -

Н Е Т   Н А Т О !!!

[andbod]

Carl you can't be more right. Even in the pro EU western Ukraine most of the people are against entering NATO and I honestly think that given current geopolitical situation they are right. Maybe would be a good chance in the future but right now Ukraine can play a much more important political role remaining neutral. The real question is : are Ukrainian politics capable of having some role in international policy ? I'm afraid not.
At the same time Ukraine has a desperate need to negotiate a long term gas agreement with Russia (economic growth can be affected in case a good and long term agreement is not signed before the end of the year).

[Carlushika]

Spot on, andbod.

Carl you can't be more right. Even in the pro EU western Ukraine most of the people are against entering NATO and I honestly think that given current geopolitical situation they are right. Maybe would be a good chance in the future but right now Ukraine can play a much more important political role remaining neutral. The real question is : are Ukrainian politics capable of having some role in international policy ? I'm afraid not.
At the same time Ukraine has a desperate need to negotiate a long term gas agreement with Russia (economic growth can be affected in case a good and long term agreement is not signed before the end of the year).

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