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Author Topic: Odessa Land Auction (With planning permission)  (Read 1889 times)
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ecocks
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 07:06 AM »

Camp:

See what Carlusha says.  Many people want the apartment as an investment, rather than intending to live there. Oddly, they don't see investment return as including an income stream by renting it out.  Only as the profit they expect to receive after it sits for a couple of years.  They believe they will realize their fortune when they sell it in a couple of years.   Shocked
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 07:06 AM »

[I must admit when I first came here and started building houses (before I got an order book) I was advised NOT to decorate them by all the agents. 

Surprised these agents haven't cottened on to the fact that - doing up the apartments will add more value to the property - perhaps its a learning process in Ukraine.

I think they maybe starting to Camps....I have recently been approached by two of them to manage such projects but it's early days and discussions have literally only just began.
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 07:10 AM »

Talking about the old buildings of Odessa, I wonder how many of them can boast underground
passages to the catacombs.
As Odeasseans know, Odessa is riddled with tunnels thanks to the catacombs. From the
catacombs the 'Odeassean underground' continued their resistance against the occupying
germans during the second world war.
So I wouldn't be at all surprised if a number of these 'old buildings' don't have secret underground
passages to the catacombs.

In fact while staying in Odessa - I was watching the Odessa version of Neighbours on
cable tv which I only know as 'Yabba, yabba' as it featured a tubby man demobbed from the
Soviet army who returns to his hometown of Odessa - to cope with the trials and tribulations
of life in a free market economy.
Why 'Yabba, yabba' - well thats the song he sings whenever he sets up his stall in the open
air market.  Cheesy
Point is - on one of his adventures, he stumbles across an underground passage while staying
at his old friends house in the city centre. Of course it makes me wonder   Wink





You ever been to the Catacombes here Camps - you'd love it.  They still have WWII typewriters, guns, beds and all the original signs for womens quarters, mens quarters etc on the walls, as well as the graffitti carved into the walls at the time.  As an avid reader of your Nap Wars (my favourite period of history) I am sure, if you get the chance you would enjoy the experience  Smiley
« Last Edit: February 16, 07:12 AM by Pompey-Nik » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 08:05 AM »

Hence, one of the supports for the thought that residential real estate will deflate a bit as it tops out.  The "demand" is significantly influenced by the lack of available investment alternatives, not to mention the upward creep of tax collection and freedom of travel.

I am currently buying an apartment and, looking at the floor plan, am trying to determine if I have a prayer of getting a few more electrical outlets, extra wiring and how I will get a carpenter to buildout closets and a full wall.  Still may come back and contract for a larger apartment in addition to the first one.  Basically, the same plan as Carlsha mentions.  May be able to sell it and use the profit to fit out the larger one.



Ed forgot to mention in my previous post about changing your floor plan and electrics etc. that although all the work is simple enough to do, if you intend to sell the appartment on again then your "appartment passport" should be updated by the local authority there to take into account the structural changes you have made.  That includes what sounds like the partitioned wall you are considering and obviously any internal supporting (weight baring) walls you may demolish and replace with RSG's.  Failure to get the "appartment passport" updated may lead to a significant delay in the sale if the document and measurements do not match what is physically standing infront of the buyer.  Unless you know someone who can change this document speedily, it will take longer to do than the work itself.  Obviously I know the people here in Odessa but in Kiev I cannot help you other than to possibly get their counterparts names and numbers.   Smiley

Also don't put your radiators underneath the windows unless you have nowhere else to put them.  If you install good quality double (or tripple if you feel that way out) glazing there is no requirement to.  It is 20 year old methods which are still being used in Ukraine today.  I had a stand up arguement with a heating engineer here about it and made him phone the radiator supplier (Italian firm the name I forget) who also told him what I had.  Don't do it unless there is nowhere else to put them.  Putting them else where will reduce the amount of heat loss, therefore reduce the amount of radiators and therefore the size of the heating system required to heat them.  All of it will save you money in the decoration process.  If you need me to, PM the size of the rooms and I will do all the calcs for you so you know what size (KW) heating system you will need.  The calcs vary from room to room so the usage of the room will also be required.
« Last Edit: February 16, 08:55 AM by Pompey-Nik » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 09:19 AM »

Ed forgot to mention in my previous post about changing your floor plan and electrics etc. that although all the work is simple enough to do, if you intend to sell the appartment on again then your "appartment passport" should be updated by the local authority there to take into account the structural changes you have made. 

Thats interesting 'apartment passports' for structural changes - I assume thats only if your adding or taking
out a wall and other adaptations to the floor plan - but you also mention 'electrics, etc' Huh

Returning to our barebones carcus of an apartment without the everyday amenities of bath, toilet, electrics etc to
make it habitable. Would adding these essential amenities mean that - yes the seller would have to get an 'apartment
passport' before he can put it on the market ? Incurring surveyers costs, solicitors fees, etc, etc.
Whereas our lazy old Ukrainian who bought an apartment to just sit on it - wouldn't need a passport ( its
begining to sound like the new UK HIPs ) and will never require one - so long as he left it in its original condition.

PS - Glad you like my Nap Wars, hope to keep it updated with any local - eg Eastern european events.

PPS - No never got round to touring the catacombs during my stay in Odessa - always been meaning too
as it would be interesting. But if you hear of any old buildings in Odessa with the afforementioned passages
to the catacombs in Odessa centre. Let us know, must be some somewhere.


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ecocks
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 09:23 AM »

Funny you mention that.  I had told my wife last year how crazy that was due to the heat loss and the effect of the drapes/curtains containnig the heat in the window area.  She finally understood what I was saying but I did realize that the panel construction method doesn't lend itself to piercing the panels with pipe, they would rather keep the radiators on the exterior wall which places them near the window.  I have 4 electric heaters anyway but yes it runs up the utility bill.  She still resists the concept of ceiling fans due to fear of the draft but I am again working on that part for where we live and wanting the extra wiring in the ceiling fixture.  Building a home (or three) would be an interesting prospect here.  Could put in so many things that they have never seen before...

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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 09:49 AM »

Ed forgot to mention in my previous post about changing your floor plan and electrics etc. that although all the work is simple enough to do, if you intend to sell the appartment on again then your "appartment passport" should be updated by the local authority there to take into account the structural changes you have made. 

Thats interesting 'apartment passports' for structural changes - I assume thats only if your adding or taking
out a wall and other adaptations to the floor plan - but you also mention 'electrics, etc' Huh

Returning to our barebones carcus of an apartment without the everyday amenities of bath, toilet, electrics etc to
make it habitable. Would adding these essential amenities mean that - yes the seller would have to get an 'apartment
passport' before he can put it on the market ? Incurring surveyers costs, solicitors fees, etc, etc.
Whereas our lazy old Ukrainian who bought an apartment to just sit on it - wouldn't need a passport ( its
begining to sound like the new UK HIPs ) and will never require one - so long as he left it in its original condition.

PS - Glad you like my Nap Wars, hope to keep it updated with any local - eg Eastern european events.

PPS - No never got round to touring the catacombs during my stay in Odessa - always been meaning too
as it would be interesting. But if you hear of any old buildings in Odessa with the afforementioned passages
to the catacombs in Odessa centre. Let us know, must be some somewhere.




The electrics do not form part of the passport Camps - just structural details walls etc.  Even if you buy a bare bones appartment from the likes of Ctikon or Berega for example, they should provide you with an appartment passport even though the appartment is brand spanking new, regardless of any other guarantees they may offer you.  Without one you will never be able to sell it on (or at least you should not be able to sell it on  Roll Eyes).  I would caution anyone against buying either new or second hand appartments without this document as you will never be able to sell it on afterwards unless you get one.  This document also forms part of the ownership documentation, he/she that holds the document stands much more chance of keeping the building (or appartment) in the case of disputed ownership.  It is called a technical passport or tehnicheskiy passport (sorry no cyrillics on my laptop).  It consists of a covering page showing the address, stating the fact that it is the technical passport and the name of the owner.  There is a space undernath for subsequent owners details during the selling process and places for offical stamps regarding the sale and the fact that no changes structural changes have been made to the building during that period of ownership.  It should also show the name of the indivual who made the technical passport and bare the stamp of the council of the region in which the building (or appartment) is in with supporting signatures from the author of the document that all is correct and the building is structurally sound.  The second page is a small outline of the building (or appartment) in the grounds (if applicable) in which it is situated.  Basically it shows the buildings exterior dimensions inside the plot of land.  This to is "stamped" and "signatured".  The next page (or pages) depending on how many levels the premises consist of is a detailed drawing showing all measurements, position and thickness of walls and locations of windows doors etc. etc.  It will include any partitioned (ie. plasterboard or "Gyps") walls which can be knocked down with a lump hammer in 2 minutes  Roll Eyes  There is a page for each level of the dwelling.  This to is "stamped, signatured and dated" etc. on each page.  The next section of the document is a detailed spreadsheet naming the purpose of each room, the size in metre squared.  This also is stamped but not always signatured or dated to be fair....dunno why.  The last section of the document is stamped and signed and on offical embossed paper saying who carried out the survey, the full address and the owner of the property at the time of the survey, ie company or private individual.  On the reverse of this document is another stamp stating it has been registered with the local council.  The last document relates to the registration number of the house (or appartment) and it's appropriate registration number which is given after the survey and acts as a form of receipt on sale for those who update the computer showing who owns what (to avoid dispute4d ownership).  This also is stamped and signed on embossed paper.

The system is there for a number of reasons - one to stop unsafe modifications by people who either pretend to know what they are doing (god knows there are many here) and to protect the legitimate buyer as only those with the technical passort (and their details thereon) will win in the case of disputed ownership as to have the document your ownership is registered with the local council.

Hope this helps........if not I will try and help you.  Needless to say all of you who OWN your house or appartment should have this document or you may risk disputed ownership in the future and will definately have problems selling it on in the future.

Clear as mud??  Cheesy

PS.  If you are buying "off the plan" ie. the building is not built yet in the contract with the builder, whoever it may be, ie Alience, you should insist that within it the technical passport will be with you within a certain time ie. 3 or 6 months of putting up your walls and should they fail to do so then they will breach the contract between you and will return all monies paid by way of deposite/full payment.

A note to all of you who buy second hand appartments, it is aso worth getting a document stating that all those REGISTERED at the address you are buying are aware of the sale (that means they do not necessarily have to be living there) or again there maybe some form of disputed ownership in the future.  If you are registered at an address even if you dont live at it, you do have a legal say in what happens to it.  It would therefore suggest a document signed by all registered at the address and notorised be in your hands before you hand over money...again it will avoid any possibility of disputed ownership.  Smiley

As an afterthought - those of you who bother with buildings insurance (ie. the structure not the contents) may struggle to claim should you need to if something structural goes wrong without this document as it is the only document you will have whereby someone in authority actually stated it was structurally sound.  Without someone saying it is structurally sound an insurance company may not pay out if you have a subsequent problem.
« Last Edit: February 16, 10:50 AM by Pompey-Nik » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 09:54 AM »

Funny you mention that.  I had told my wife last year how crazy that was due to the heat loss and the effect of the drapes/curtains containnig the heat in the window area.  She finally understood what I was saying but I did realize that the panel construction method doesn't lend itself to piercing the panels with pipe, they would rather keep the radiators on the exterior wall which places them near the window.  I have 4 electric heaters anyway but yes it runs up the utility bill.  She still resists the concept of ceiling fans due to fear of the draft but I am again working on that part for where we live and wanting the extra wiring in the ceiling fixture.  Building a home (or three) would be an interesting prospect here.  Could put in so many things that they have never seen before...



Why do you think a have a waiting list Ed? LOL  I can now count amongst my friends Vladimere Belikov (appartly very famous archietect here and in Russia) who loves what I do........but I do "one offs" and will never do the same thing twice with regard to design.....again I guess why I have a waiting list of clients.  Wish I had the cash flow to do more than one at a time.  Got another order on Thursday for someone with a disabled son (which makes it more interesting for me) to add to the 4 other people who are waiting.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 10:13 AM »

The system is there for a number of reasons - one to stop unsafe modifications by people who either pretend to know what they are doing (god knows there are many here) and to protect the legitimate buyer

Thanks for the detailed explanation - but just returning to my lazy old Ukrainian who buys a barebones apartment, only
to sit on it and ( hopefully ) make a fortune - whenever he sells it.
Will he or she still have to go through all the procedures you mentioned - or could he ( more or less ) sell it on with the
original passport - stamped 'no change'
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 10:18 AM »

The system is there for a number of reasons - one to stop unsafe modifications by people who either pretend to know what they are doing (god knows there are many here) and to protect the legitimate buyer

Thanks for the detailed explanation - but just returning to my lazy old Ukrainian who buys a barebones apartment, only
to sit on it and ( hopefully ) make a fortune - whenever he sells it.
Will he or she still have to go through all the procedures you mentioned - or could he ( more or less ) sell it on with the
original passport - stamped 'no change'

I a word yes other than his details would then appear under those of the builder on page one of the document and be "stamped and signatured" - the front page basically provides a family tree of who build and owned the property....bit like the deeds to a house in the UK.
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 10:10 AM »

Ed forgot to mention in my previous post about changing your floor plan and electrics etc. that although all the work is simple enough to do, if you intend to sell the appartment on again then your "appartment passport" should be updated by the local authority there to take into account the structural changes you have made. 

Thats interesting 'apartment passports' for structural changes - I assume thats only if your adding or taking
out a wall and other adaptations to the floor plan - but you also mention 'electrics, etc' Huh

Returning to our barebones carcus of an apartment without the everyday amenities of bath, toilet, electrics etc to
make it habitable. Would adding these essential amenities mean that - yes the seller would have to get an 'apartment
passport' before he can put it on the market ? Incurring surveyers costs, solicitors fees, etc, etc.
Whereas our lazy old Ukrainian who bought an apartment to just sit on it - wouldn't need a passport ( its
begining to sound like the new UK HIPs ) and will never require one - so long as he left it in its original condition.

PS - Glad you like my Nap Wars, hope to keep it updated with any local - eg Eastern european events.

PPS - No never got round to touring the catacombs during my stay in Odessa - always been meaning too
as it would be interesting. But if you hear of any old buildings in Odessa with the afforementioned passages
to the catacombs in Odessa centre. Let us know, must be some somewhere.




The electrics do not form part of the passport Camps - just structural details walls etc.  Even if you buy a bare bones appartment from the likes of Ctikon or Berega for example, they should provide you with an appartment passport even though the appartment is brand spanking new, regardless of any other guarantees they may offer you.  Without one you will never be able to sell it on (or at least you should not be able to sell it on  Roll Eyes).  I would caution anyone against buying either new or second hand appartments without this document as you will never be able to sell it on afterwards unless you get one.  This document also forms part of the ownership documentation, he/she that holds the document stands much more chance of keeping the building (or appartment) in the case of disputed ownership.  It is called a technical passport or tehnicheskiy passport (sorry no cyrillics on my laptop).  It consists of a covering page showing the address, stating the fact that it is the technical passport and the name of the owner.  There is a space undernath for subsequent owners details during the selling process and places for offical stamps regarding the sale and the fact that no changes structural changes have been made to the building during that period of ownership.  It should also show the name of the indivual who made the technical passport and bare the stamp of the council of the region in which the building (or appartment) is in with supporting signatures from the author of the document that all is correct and the building is structurally sound.  The second page is a small outline of the building (or appartment) in the grounds (if applicable) in which it is situated.  Basically it shows the buildings exterior dimensions inside the plot of land.  This to is "stamped" and "signatured".  The next page (or pages) depending on how many levels the premises consist of is a detailed drawing showing all measurements, position and thickness of walls and locations of windows doors etc. etc.  It will include any partitioned (ie. plasterboard or "Gyps") walls which can be knocked down with a lump hammer in 2 minutes  Roll Eyes  There is a page for each level of the dwelling.  This to is "stamped, signatured and dated" etc. on each page.  The next section of the document is a detailed spreadsheet naming the purpose of each room, the size in metre squared.  This also is stamped but not always signatured or dated to be fair....dunno why.  The last section of the document is stamped and signed and on offical embossed paper saying who carried out the survey, the full address and the owner of the property at the time of the survey, ie company or private individual.  On the reverse of this document is another stamp stating it has been registered with the local council.  The last document relates to the registration number of the house (or appartment) and it's appropriate registration number which is given after the survey and acts as a form of receipt on sale for those who update the computer showing who owns what (to avoid dispute4d ownership).  This also is stamped and signed on embossed paper.

The system is there for a number of reasons - one to stop unsafe modifications by people who either pretend to know what they are doing (god knows there are many here) and to protect the legitimate buyer as only those with the technical passort (and their details thereon) will win in the case of disputed ownership as to have the document your ownership is registered with the local council.

Hope this helps........if not I will try and help you.  Needless to say all of you who OWN your house or appartment should have this document or you may risk disputed ownership in the future and will definately have problems selling it on in the future.

Clear as mud??  Cheesy

PS.  If you are buying "off the plan" ie. the building is not built yet in the contract with the builder, whoever it may be, ie Alience, you should insist that within it the technical passport will be with you within a certain time ie. 3 or 6 months of putting up your walls and should they fail to do so then they will breach the contract between you and will return all monies paid by way of deposite/full payment.

A note to all of you who buy second hand appartments, it is aso worth getting a document stating that all those REGISTERED at the address you are buying are aware of the sale (that means they do not necessarily have to be living there) or again there maybe some form of disputed ownership in the future.  If you are registered at an address even if you dont live at it, you do have a legal say in what happens to it.  It would therefore suggest a document signed by all registered at the address and notorised be in your hands before you hand over money...again it will avoid any possibility of disputed ownership.  Smiley

As an afterthought - those of you who bother with buildings insurance (ie. the structure not the contents) may struggle to claim should you need to if something structural goes wrong without this document as it is the only document you will have whereby someone in authority actually stated it was structurally sound.  Without someone saying it is structurally sound an insurance company may not pay out if you have a subsequent problem.

Now I want a little moan............ Where I have land and build houses used to fall into a part of Odessa called Ovedeopelskyrayon, but now the powers that be have decided to expand the "city" limits to include this area (no doubt to capture the rich and famous which have land and/or houses there). 

As part of my labourious text on what documents you should have by way of "tehnicheskiy passport" I explained you needed certain signatures and stamps on certain documents.  Due to the changes in the city limits, the newly made "passports" will not bare the stamp of "Ovedeopelskyrayon" but that of "Odessa".  Why am I moaning I hear you say?  Well there are three options which could be considered and I will leave you to guess which was taken:

1.   Continue to make the "passports" and put the old stamps on until the new stamps have been made and delivered.
2.   Continue to do all that is necessary and simply stamp them with the new stamps when they arrive.
3.   Completely stop.....(until the new stamps arrive)

Won't even do a poll............you've all guessed the answer is 3  Roll Eyes Shocked 
« Last Edit: February 28, 10:13 AM by Pompey-Nik » Logged

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ecocks
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 10:21 AM »

LOL - wondered why you have been on so much last couple of days.   Cheesy
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 10:26 AM »

LOL - wondered why you have been on so much last couple of days.   Cheesy

I'd be laughing too, if a several hundred thousand $ weren't waiting for this document.  Can't sell the latest completed house without the document and I have people waiting.  Roll Eyes Sad Roll Eyes Cry
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 10:29 AM »

Hopefully, you know that we're laughing only on the outside.  Behind this laughter, well imagine the tears of a clown....  Cry
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« Reply #29 on: February 28, 10:34 AM »

Hopefully, you know that we're laughing only on the outside.  Behind this laughter, well imagine the tears of a clown....  Cry

You know me Ed, it's not that much of a big deal.....yet.  As normal, noone knows when the new stamps will arrive, possibly 2 weeks, possibly a month.  Just part of the life enriching experience of Ukraine we have all experienced  Cheesy Wink
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