Great Apartment in Kraskoarmeyskaya

[AlexMc]

A friend of mine is offering his wonderful two-room flat for rent in Krasnoarmeyskaya near Ukraina Palace.  Very nice and quite location.  I know and can recommend the landlord as a trustworthy person.

It is the 6th floor in a 7 storey, well maintained building located just across the Ukraina Palace building. 45m2. - 2 rooms plus kitchen, bathroom, wc, corridor, and a balcony, furnished and fully equipped (and air conditioned).

USD 1.600 monthly.  My friend's telephone number is +38 098 476 40 18

For full info and contact details, please drop an e-mail to alexandermccall@gmail.com

[Claus]

Honestly, this fee is quite steep; in my humple opinion 

[AlexMc]

Yes, it is true that the rents have gone up last fall in Kiev but can you find something cheaper of the same quality in central Kiev and without the fees of a real estate agent.

[ecocks]

Yeah, they have gone up. No doubt about that.  My old one jumped 55% to $1,150.  When I gave notice the landlord raised it to $1,600.  It was great while it lasted but the new one is about 85 sm with 3 rooms for $1100.  Of course I am further out now though.  I still say this market is crazy, real estate is going like London or New York.  Will be interesting to see how much further it can go.

Our other apartment is available in February for those on a budget!   

[Lt. Campers]

Would you believe it $1600 dollars a month for an apartment in Kiev !! Do I assume that with a palace next door, they are charging royal rates ?
For me such an apartment would need to have a room with a view - as well as all modern conveniences as mentioned above.

[BritKyiv]

Prices fluctuate wildly in the city centre.
The people to blame for high prices are of course our friends from the 'foreign community', who are allocated a monthly amount by their international company employer or Embassy etc. If they are not paying from their own pocket, why should they care?

You will NOT find Ukrainians renting city center apartments for high prices. Plus the agencies ONLY charge 100% commission to foreigners. Locals will never pay 100% commission and if you challenge them long enough they will agree to 50% or lower.

For $1500 a month you can find some very nice places in the city centre if you know how to look and who to deal with.  Remember Ukrainians always set a stupid high price for just about everything, so they are not going to say NO, if they are not challenged on the price.  They are starting to learn that they MUST negotiate on price, but like most things they only agree after a LONG negotiation period, which the likes of us should be prepared to endure.

As soon as the demand side starts to 'rebel' then we will see a normal situation in the market.
Winter is a great time for making bargains. Most owners/agents are desperate and will agree to reduce the price.

Just to show you what happens when they don't....a quick story.
I rented a very nice apartment in the city center for $2,500 per month for just six months. I decided to stay a little longer and informed the owner that I would stay. Ok, he said but the rent will be $5,000 per month. GREAT I said, I hope you find someone who will pay you, I will move out. But I  offered to stay and pay $2,500 until he found another tenant who was prepared to pay double the rent. But no, he said he would soon find a tenant.  So, I found another apartment in the city centre within 3 hours, for a LOWER price and its a better apartment. I move out and I am happy.
The owner of the old apartment is STILL looking for a new tenant, and I moved out of 15 November 2007.

They just do not understand 'win win' negotiating.  But believe me, things are starting to change.
So the next time you go to rent an apartment.....please try to offer a lower price that you feel comfortable with.  You know its what we would do back home.  They WILL catch on here soon.

[ecocks]

CORRECTION.

I need to correct my amounts a few posts back and wanted to do more than just edit them.

Landlord raised my rent to $1,155/month from $750.  When I gave notice she then listed it at $1250 (dollars).  We have been beseiged by phone calls but only a few lookers.  Over half the broker agents we talk to insist she (landlord) is too high.  One couple came to look but were not impressed.  It is a great apartment, even at $800 or so, but I think it will sit empty a while.

I suspect we are closing in on a top for the residential market. If investing I would look at commercial space or converting some small residential into commercial.

[SilverBullet]

You will NOT find Ukrainians renting city center apartments for high prices.

I must say some expats in Kyiv are paying rents as if it were in New York or San Francisco but it is not  By doing so you are just fueling the landlords imagination and greed. Locals pay nothing close to these rents. Part of being in Eastern Europe is to live like the locals in my opinion. I find it much more interesting to live in a Soviet style built apartment and pay local rents. No hot water at night is ok with me. I live somewhat outside the city center but can easily get downtown within 10 min. by taxi or minibus. The rent is $550 for a 2 room flat. Not Euro standard but I can instead spend more on travel and restaurants, clubs etc than in rent. Seriously, how can you spend as much as $2,500 in rent? You could bank $2,000 per month instead  Just my 2 cents worth, perhaps I am too much of a low maintenace guy     

[JonathanCampion]

I think you were lucky - the places I found for $600 in November were a sizeable trolleybus ride from the nearest metro, and had floors you could have fallen though. So I agree, rent in Kyiv is more expensive than it should be.

Also, I was all for living 'po vostochno-evropeiski' until it became obvious how dangerous it is. At the moment I spend more than half my salary on rent and live in a flat where I really feel at home- if any of us had an respect for our bank accounts we woudn't be in Ukraine, right?

J

[ecocks]

Well, rented my apartment in Akademistechka - $600/mo. on a 6 month lease.  Gives some flexibility to either sell or re-rent at market prices when the season is high.

[matlockk]

I guess it's all my fault. i have a top position with a German company and I pay $3000 a month for a superbly renovated 2 bedroom apartment opposite Sevchenko park. The expats who report to me typically pay 2-3k, most live in the centre. Incidentally, a similar position in Moscow would command a rental allowance of at least double that.

I think in this thread we are assuming there is one rental market when in fact there are several. There is the premium expat market, like me, paid for by company, in the centre. then there is a whole other market of private people(teachers, self employed) who might typically live off centre and off course should pay less rent.

The same situation is in Moscow and if I was paying $1000 a month in Yugo Zapadnaya I wouldn't expect to be able to look for a place on the Arbat for the same figure. try multiplying by 6.

Furthermore, I have a cottage in a Yorkshire village, about 90msq, which I could rent for $4000 a month!

[Lt. Campers]

Just a word of caution for those who choose Soviet style apartments whose fellow inhabitants are not in tune with health and safety standards.
Their have been so many cases of gas explosions in the former Soviet Union, particularly in Russia, attributed to the carelessness of elderly or drunk occupants - that its best checking the mentality of your fellow occupants.

Of course the best apartment for me is one where you can step back in time.

[SilverBullet]

I think you were lucky - the places I found for $600 in November were a sizeable trolleybus ride from the nearest metro, and had floors you could have fallen though. So I agree, rent in Kyiv is more expensive than it should be.

Also, I was all for living 'po vostochno-evropeiski' until it became obvious how dangerous it is. At the moment I spend more than half my salary on rent and live in a flat where I really feel at home- if any of us had an respect for our bank accounts we woudn't be in Ukraine, right?

J

I rented the flat 2 years ago and the rent then was $350 per month so there has been a significant increase after all to the current $550. Still a good deal I think.   

As for Soviet style flats, many are not bad. I have never seen any where the floors are about to cave in. There are many working class/middle class flats in ok condition, with hard wood floors, balcony, double pane windows and radiant heating. The buildings have security gates or locked front doors with a "guard" - old lady inside monitoring people coming and going and there are working elevators. I feel safe in this environment and it makes it more interesting to live like the locals instead of in a luxury flat. 

I think you must have seen some really bad flats / neighborhoods and I would not generalize based on that impression. I prefer to spend less on rent and more on fun things to do in Ukraine instead. For me it is just a place to sleep. 

[SilverBullet]

I guess it's all my fault. i have a top position with a German company and I pay $3000 a month for a superbly renovated 2 bedroom apartment opposite Sevchenko park. The expats who report to me typically pay 2-3k, most live in the centre. Incidentally, a similar position in Moscow would command a rental allowance of at least double that.

I think in this thread we are assuming there is one rental market when in fact there are several. There is the premium expat market, like me, paid for by company, in the centre. then there is a whole other market of private people(teachers, self employed) who might typically live off centre and off course should pay less rent.

The same situation is in Moscow and if I was paying $1000 a month in Yugo Zapadnaya I wouldn't expect to be able to look for a place on the Arbat for the same figure. try multiplying by 6.

Furthermore, I have a cottage in a Yorkshire village, about 90msq, which I could rent for $4000 a month!

You are right, there is definately an expat luxury market and the rents being paid has no reality in the local economy. What you pay in 1 month represents 6 months salary for someone making the average pay. I cannot pay such rents knowing how much money it is for locals. For me the ultimate expat experience is to try to live like local people do. I lived in New York City as an expat and paid $3,500 for a luxury apartment next to Central Park. I also had a housing allowance covering the rent but still you don't have to spend it all. After one year I moved to a less expensive apartment and pocketed the difference.  Needless to say my bank account got beefed up because of it. 

Being an expat is not to expect things to be as in your home country. Perhaps I am too much of an adventurer, but I prefer the Soviet style buildings and surroundings. That way you also more easily get in touch with the locals and can make new friends. It works wonders for my language skills and you learn more about the culture which is useful in daily life. That way I find myself to be more in tune with the local situation. 

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