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Author Topic: Language Schools in Ukraine  (Read 1116 times)
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ecocks
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« on: June 19, 10:59 AM »

One of the posters suggested some write-ups on the different language schools where teachers have worked so here goes on SpeakUP (3 locations in Kyiv and 1 in Odessa as of June, a 4th planned for Kyiv before the end of August and another one or two at the beginning of 2009 or sooner).

SpeakUP

SpeakUP is one of the newer schools in Kyiv, having opened their first school in November of 2007 and seems to be rapidly building a student base (currently around 900 students).  After discounting, their rate seem about normal for the area.  $120-200/month (depending on how long a program you select) is about right for small group lessons meeting twice a week.  However, their system proposal is a bit different:

STUDYING THERE:

They sell levels (15) rather than classes.  You are allowed 3 months for each level and that includes 20 teacher-led classes covering grammar, special topics (travel, cooking, music, business, etc.), conversation, reading, writing and vocabulary; plus computer lab usage involving reading, listening, speaking and grammar with their proprietary software system.  The facilities are new and, most interestingly, you schedule your classes from among the weekly offerings (morning, mid-day and evening).  This means you are not in a set group or assigned a specific teacher although you ARE assigned an advisor, called a Personal Teacher.  The classes are taught from a set curriculum for consistency.  There is no in-company program, all students come to their school locations for classes.  Classes and computer access are offered 6 days a week (closed on Sundays) from 7:30AM until 9:30PM, shortened hours on Saturday from 9:00AM to 5:00PM.  You also have use of the internet cafe machines and lending library during that time period as well.

WORKING THERE:

Teachers are paid LEGALLY, with full documentation support (visa and work permit application), at the high end of average wages, currently $1500 net for a 5-day, 40 hour work week.  Teaching load is 26 clock hours a week then you have approximately 14 hours of meetings, counseling and preparation.  Employees are discouraged from working for multiple schools.  Sundays are always off and you work 3 Saturdays out of 4 on average.  Facilities are all new, lesson plans are provided and split shifts are avoided whenever possible.  Oh, and they have the best toilets in town.   Shocked

They are owned by an extremely large corporation ($2.0B USD) so they are stable and setup for the long-term.  4 weeks vacation, insurance, incredibly clean working conditions and those amazing toilets are standard.

Any questions, feel free to ask, public or privately.



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« Last Edit: July 31, 02:36 PM by ecocks » Logged
ecocks
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 06:41 AM »

Another one.  I will start it and then add to it as I piece together more information.

Nova Mova Language School

These guys were a typical, single location school which offered both English and Russian language classes for individuals, small groups and company programs.  About 6 months ago they began to try to grow a bit by hiring a few more teachers and becoming more aggressive in their marketing to company programs. 

STUDYING THERE:

They offer a variety of options including an immersion Russian program involving homestays or apartments, excursions into the countryside and around town.  Group and one-on-one classes are offered in both Russian and English at their new location near Zoloti Varota (16 Yaroslav Val).  Prices seem fair and they are striving to offer turn-key service to out-of-the-country people wanting to come in and do their immersion Russian programs.

Website: learnrussian.kiev.ua

WORKING THERE:

They hire teachers, native and non-native in the traditional manner with considerable flexibility in times and commitment.  Their offices are large and they attempt to provide a friendly base in the center area with very convenient metro access.  A good teaching library is available and there is a warm atmosphere from the owners. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 04:24 PM by ecocks » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 05:59 PM »

How come i didn't notice this thread? Angry ecocks, thanks for starting it! Smiley

Quote from: ecocks
They sell levels (15) rather than classes.


Looks like this Speak Up school is a spitting image of Wall Street Institute, which has LOOOOTS of branches all over the world. All of them sell levels (17) not classes.



At first i thought it was just a coinsidence, but then i visited their websites – WSI Moscow and Speak Up Ukraine, and heeeey they do look alike, not the website design of course, but the way they teach and especially the way take money.

I wanted people’s opinion on those schools and here’s what I found on Russian forums

Moscow, the girl complains about WSI

Quote
Добрый день! Хочется поделиться со всеми сведеньями, относительно только что появившейся в Москве школы wall street institute. WSI - это международная, как они себя позиционируют, компания. У меня есть друг в Испаниии когда я услышала об этой компании, обратилась к нему и представите мой ужас, когда он мне сказал, что это обычная компания-пирамида, которая запрещена во многих странах!!! Фишка в том, что они собирают деньги сразу за 9 месяцев (в России это 78 000!!!), то есть за 3 этапа. Также было и в Испании. Народ заплатил за обучение на много месяцев вперед и фирма развалилась ((( А еще у них много франчайзингов, которые, вроде бы вообще ни за что не отвечают!!! И еще они по договору обязуются вернуть 70% стоимости, если не будет результата! Не верьте... Там просто ничего не докажешь. Скажут "сам дурак" и не будут заморачиваться!

http://www.efl.ru/forum/threads/24090/#260820


Sorry im too lazy to translate that into English, but most of you guys speak good Russian, so I guess you’ll have no problems reading that.

Ok, as she was saying the WSI school was banned in Spain, so i decided to check if that was true. It appears that those schools were not banned but still there was a big stink.

Quote
"In 2002 there were as many as 130 WSI branches in Spain. Many of these were franchises. With the collapse that same year of rival school Opening English, which used a similar computer-based teaching method to that of Wall Street, the Baltimore company saw 88 of its Spanish franchises close before the end of the year.

Today there are less than 20 Wall Street Institute branches open in Spain.

Wall Street and Opening English used a similar method to charge their customers. Customers would sign up for an extended period of time in order to avail of cheaper rates. However the contract which they signed was not with Wall Street but with a financing operation unconnected to the English school chain. Thus when students of the two schools, unhappy with their progress, tried to rescind their contracts early they discovered that they had to take the issue up with the bank that underwrote the financing company who issued their contract. Wall Street does not teach children. The majority were unsuccessful in their claims.

When Consumers Associations took up the plight of many disaffected students, the issue became a national story and loop holes in Spain's commerce laws were shown to be being exploited by the chain schools, who did not have to take any responsibility for the customers' dissatisfaction with the quality of the services they offered.

The relevant laws were subsequently amended."

http://teflblacklist.blogspot.com/2008/08/wall-street-institute-spain.html


And finally, the comment posted by a Ukrainian student about Speak-Up

Quote
Мыслим одинаково. Сходила в Speak Up.Отличное общение, отличное тестирование (как я и предполагала, оно показало, что за последние 1,5 месяца я не продвинулась ни на йоту). и тут - бабах! Цена. ОН (менеджер):"В вашем случае это будет стоить больше 2тыс у.е." Я - "Huh " ОН: "У нас до завтрашнего дня 50% скидка!" Девочки, ну что же это за смесь канадской компании с телемагазином? ОН продолжает: "Платить надо сразу. ну или первый взнос - почти 600 у.е, а протом еще по 300 несколько раз оплатите". Я : "Что за странная система оплаты? Нельзя ли помесячно?"(помесячно как раз по 110 у.е. получается). ОН: "Можно, через банковский кредит" Отлично, на моем обучении еще и банк заработает (приличная , между прочим, переплата получается)
Девочки, ну скажите мне без эмоций - это у них что-то не так или я странная? Вопрос к тем, кто ходит в Speak Up: это обучение действительно того стоит? Есть реальные их студенты на форуме?

http://www.natali.ua/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1872403
 

So what do you guys think? Is this the same school or Im just being paranoid? Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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ecocks
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 12:32 AM »

Paranoia.

WSI (or even the other one mentioned) is obviously not SpeakUP, or at least not now, although there could have been influence or even a common origin 4-5 years ago when they were starting up. Is the rest of the program similar - a multimedia computer component mixed in with in-classroom teaching? It doesn't give enough info in the one translated part for me to understand. I'll have my wife translate the Russian since I cannot make heads nor tails of anything the other person wrote.  In the meantime, there are 100's of students in the SpeakUP schools here in Ukraine and I see lots of smiles and hear English in the classrooms and lobby area every day. The newest school is opening this week in Podil between Postova Ploscha and Kontraktova on Sayadachkogo (sp?). 

All the students I talk to seem to be progressing and enjoying the schedule flexibility, coupled with the convenience of the facilities.

As for bank financing, it's offered as an option not a requirement.  Many people pay cash at the front desk.

« Last Edit: August 21, 12:50 AM by ecocks » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 06:21 PM »

Ok, some reasons why i think it’s one and the same school/ company or whatever they are.

1)   they sell levels not classes, but you can’t buy only one level.
2)   computer-based learning (something like 20 computer lab classes per level)
3)   students do not belong to any group, they build their own schedule
4)   students have their personal tutors or assistants
5)   they don’t teach children

and the most important issue is the way they charge students. You CANNOT find any information about the money in the "PRICES" section neither on WSI Russia website nor on Speak UP Ukraine website. Both websites say – “you have to visit our office and our managers will give you detailed information on how much you have to pay”.

I’ve also read on forums that even when people call them, their managers still refuse to tell them the price untill they visit their office. What is that a top secrete information? Let’s say if i can’t shell out 500 dollars for one level at one time (yes, they charge something like 120 dollars a month, but one level lasts about three months and you can’t buy only one level as far as i understood) So if you can’t pay that much (by you I mean avarage Kievans), why do you have to waste your time and go to their office to listen to their brainwashing managers about how cheap everything is and that they have three kinds of discouts etc, etc, etc.  Maybe they have real good psycologists there who can talk people into signing their contract. I dunno. As far as money is concerned, this school acts like they're a sect or something Cheesy

Ok, to conclude my paranoia, I’d like to say that i googled “спик ап” and found some forums where people ask advice on where to learn english. Most comments about Speak Up school are negative ‘cept for a couple of them, which were posted by people who work for that school.

Im not going to post them comments here, because there are lots of them and you’ll have to buy something nice for your wife to help you translate them Grin  I’ll only post one comment which made me smile. Here it is.

Quote
Hello, от себя хочу сказать, что я нигде еще не видела ни одного нормального отзыва о Speak -Up. кроме, конечно, тех, что они сами ваяют, но делают это так примитивно и непроффесионально. Но по теме: я по проффесии журналист, но был недавно момент, когда перед командировкой довелась подганять язык немного, хоття я имею довольно хороший Upper. Ведомая рекламой пришла в эту школу. Согласна со многими, уже здесь писавшими, что ценовая политика - это сплошная загадка, был даже момент, когда я усомнилась в своих умственных способностях, так как пыталась все же разобраться за что конкретно я плачу и сколько. Короче, - задача неразрешимая. Но самым прикольным было, когда я увидела ПРЕПОДАВАТЕЛЯ! Это было нечто! Моя соседка по этажу, студентка то-ли 3, то-ли 4 курса иняза, родители которой каждую сессию всем рассказывают как нынче тяжело учиться, какие несправедливые преподы и т.д., покорно везут $, чтобы чадо сдала экзамены, о чем наслышаны не только мы, соседи, но , по-моему, уже весь дом - так это чадо - преподаватель в данной школе! О КАКИХ ЗНАНИЯХ МОЖЕТ ИДТИ РЕЧЬ? ЧЕМУ МОЖЕТ НАУЧИТЬ ТАКОЙ ПРЕПОДОВАТЕЛЬ?

http://www.forum.studentu.org.ua/index.php?s=56fe9c84810b55acaff2b2529e22d08f&showtopic=39&pid=155&st=0&#entry155
Shocked Roll Eyes Ukrainian education, eh? Roll Eyes
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ecocks
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 01:28 AM »

Forwarded the SpeakUP-related comments on to management.

Students can and do buy only one level, but obviously longer commitments lead to better monthly pricing.  It shows plainly on the price list so I am not sure what the problem is.  See below where it gives a quick comment on the pricing variables.  As for exercising their guarantee, I know a couple of people have done so.  Inevitably, there are a few people who don't like the computer component and one or two have even insisted they will not do the computer classes but like the ability to select from the teacher-led courses.  We have students who don't like individual teachers (like everywhere) and we make arrangements where possible to have them work with other teachers.  My favorite so far has been the one who said her teacher was too young and couldn't possibly be a good teacher.  Another student consistently picks the same teacher for all her lessons.  It is what they paid for, flexibility and control.  Looks like it's working to me.

At a 5 level purchase, the price works out to about $110/month or so.  That is competitive with the price structures I am aware of around Kyiv.  Nothing top secret about it, it was plainly posted here about 2 months ago.  There is also an option that makes it cheaper if you opt for daytime classes before 3:00 PM.  So, given that the student hasn't seen the school, structure or had that explained and also that the rate varies as the number of levels goes up, I see nothing wrong with having the student come in for pricing.  If a student doesn't want to come by and look it over, they are probably not a serious student anyway.

To clarify your comment on the computer component, there are 25 multi-media lessons in each level.  Look back at the course structure comments regarding how the students build their own schedules. 

Current student count is over 1000 and they have approximately 20 teachers, so something seems to be working out well.  I can find negative responses on every school in town.  The fact is that a negative experience is about 5-6 times more likely to be related than a good one.  I can find people who will tell you BMW and Mercedes are a waste of money and the Park Plaza Hotel staff doesn’t empty their wastebaskets on time.  Going over those listings I see negatives on Green Forrest and Denis.  I have heard negatives on every school in town - LSE, BusinessLink, AEC, Phoenix, the list goes on.

Let me know if you ever want to look around a SpeakUP, I will be happy to introduce you to whichever students are in the lobby, show you the lesson plan library and so on.  I will even print you a price sheet.  It's a different type of operation compared to anyplace else I have seen in Kyiv or Prague.

All in all, this is a new level of sophistiication in the business model for language training.  I have talked to several school owners who are now trying to figure out how they can establish a credit program similar to this one.  Professional sales reps are hard to find in Ukraine (IMO) but they are coming into being.  Progress.
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 07:13 AM »

When Speak Up hit the market in Kiev it looked like the best learning system around, with 79 schools in Poland they were certainly the largest to open in Ukraine. Within 12 months they have quickly opened a total of 6 schools in Kiev and 1 in Odessa.

While Odessa is a smaller school, the Kiev schools have an average enrollment of 100 new students per week, mostly on finance contracts with local banks and credit agencies. How much is it? I haven't got a clue. Even when I asked (and I worked there) I got a convoluted answer. It depends on how many levels, time of day, etc, etc, etc.

The quickly drew in the best Native English Teachers in Kiev which has resulted in a shortage of Native Teachers in the rest of the Kiev schools. Many promises were made by the Director of Teachers, with the full knowledge and consent of the Country Director.

Monthly salaries offered were $1200. USD per month, payable in UAH. Teachers were offered $1000 per month during a 90 day probationary period and a promised raise to $1200 per month after probation. In Kiev there was a $300 USD per month housing allowance, and in Odessa a $250 USD per month housing allowance. Teachers were also promised that if they did more than 26 teaching hours per week they would be paid at a rate of $12 USD per hour. All quoted salaries were NET of taxes, quoted in dollars and payable in UAH.

Teachers were promised a 3 year business visa, with all expenses paid for the trip to get it, as well as work permits and health insurance.

Now for the truth....

They quickly sucked in the best Native English teachers with their promises which they refused to fulfill. The Director of Teachers eventually quit in support of the teachers, and since then the teachers have been organizing a strike action in Kiev.

1) The monthly housing allowance in Odessa was never paid.

2) The salaries are paid based only on the probationary salary. No raises after 90 days probation.

3) Probation does not start on the first day of work, it starts on the first of the month after you were hired. So, if you started 18 July, you 90 probation period does not start until 1 August.

3) None of the teachers (Native English or Ukrainian) in the company were paid for extra teaching hours. I know of one Native English Teacher in Kiev that did an EXTRA 36 hours in one week and never got a dime for it.

4) The salaries are being based upon a 3 month old exchange rate and they refuse to base it upon the National Bank of Ukraine official USD exchange rate.

5) A meeting was scheduled with the teachers representative and the Country Director to discuss the issues. At the last minute the Country Director canceled, saying she was ill. Meanwhile, she was holed up with the HR Director writing contracts for all the teachers.

6) In an effort to cut off the threatened strike action by the teachers the contracts were issued today. None of them are even as good as the previous agreements. In other words, lower pay, lower benefits, etc.. When this was pointed out we were told that the Director of Teachers, who hired all of us, is no longer employed there, so none of the agreements he signed are valid.

7) The offered contract makes very general and sweeping comments regarding work done in compliance with company rules and regulations. Nobody seem to know what these are. They are not written down, and seem to be at the whim of the Country Director, or any other boss you may have in the company. "Well... we're not going to pay you this month because I don't like your hairstyle." Angry I know it's an extreme example, but very possible, and if your Head of Studies doesn't like you, very probable.

Cool Some of the Kiev teachers did get their 3 year visas. However, only some got their travel expenses paid for. There was no logic or reason behind the decisions, just some people got it, and some were refused.

9) By the time they got around to sending the visa paperwork to Odessa the regulations had changed. They didn't bother to check this and I made a wasted trip to Kishinev and was refused by the Ukraine Embassy there because of bad paperwork. Then, when I returned to Odessa, without a visa, it somehow became my fault that I didn't get a visa and that it was MY responsibility to know what paperwork was necessary. My response was that it was HR's responsibility and that maybe they should do some work 'other' than sending out birthday greetings to the employees every day. That was 2 weeks ago, and they never sent new paperwork.

10) 'Consultants' are paid according to a convoluted formula based upon corporate sales and individual sales. If they do not meet their quota in both areas, they do not get ANY commissions. In Kiev it's possible to meet their quotas because of al the corporate head offices. In Odessa it's impossible because there are no head offices here, and any call you make refers you to Kiev. Of course, Odessa 'Consultants' can't sell in Kiev, so in the end a Kiev 'Consultant' gets the commission. The top selling 'Consultant' in Odessa quit after he was not paid any commissions, while a Kiev 'Consultant' get his commissions on a corporate contract he had put together.

11) I've just been told that I will not receive my October salary, so I guess I worked 5 weeks for free.  Angry


While the program itself could be excellent and could be the best, it is frequently done in a half-assed fashion. Incomplete books, missing documents, missing listening materials, etc.. Each books is FULL of errors and in 1 year of operation in Ukraine, nothing has been done to address the errors. They originated in Poland and the materials for Ukraine are only translations of the Polish documents, sometimes bad translations, and some of the books still contain Polish. All of the so called "Club activities" contain Polish, and all the Level Review Tests contain Polish. Although they are the most expensive school around, on a scale of 1 to 5 I would have to give their program a 3, maybe 3.5.

Speak Up is Exactly the same as Wall Street Institute. Their priority is to sell contracts through financing to get their money upfront. Teaching English becomes secondary. If a student enrolled, using financing, and for some reason has to drop out, they still pay the full amount to the finance company, because the finance company has already paid Speak Up, and Speak Up doesn't give refunds.


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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 09:39 AM »

Management has effectively destroyed a promising language school. 

The Country-level Director of Studies, an extremely professional Ukrainian Professor resigned in disgust a couple of weeks ago as management began to repudiate their agreements with the teachers. 

Student dissatisfaction has risen rapidly as teacher morale dropped. 

While they have a wonderful program, they seem to think that TEFL teachers are commodity replacements.  I would not be interested in watching the resulting ride the school is about to go through and have begun advising against using this school until they have sorted out their labor problems and the quality of the teachers is determined.

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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 07:32 PM »

Management has effectively destroyed a promising language school. 


Thanks ECOCKS for this series of posts.  It's quite impressive to see a frank and honest assessment and how it progresses over four months' time.  Your initial enthusiasm for the place was not excessive, your mid-stream concerns were well-expressed, and your current disappointment is neither personalized nor strident.

I have taught English and French here in Kiev since September at a tiny new school.  It does seem that the flexibility of scheduling at SpeakUP would be quite attractive to students.  A real innovation in service if you can pull it off.

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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 06:08 AM »

I'm just wandering, why the moderator has removed the posts with the opposite opinion? For example, tjharrell wrote:

Re: I Do Not Recommend Speak Up
« Reply #11 on: Today at 02:44 PM » Quote Modify Remove 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can only speak for myself.
Speak-Up has treated me fairly to this point. I like working there. They paid for my 3 year visa, and even gave me the money in advance for the trip to Poland. When I was short money, they advanced me money from my next month's salary. I have been well treated.

I haven't had the same bad experiences, nor do I feel the same anger. I have nothing to really complain about, in spite of some people's attempts to make me think and feel otherwise.

The contract that was handed out today is a work in process. We were told to make comments and return it. The process isn't finished. It is a little early to make the judgment of malicious intent.

I don't buy the evil empire of language schools premise. All the problems that occurred were under the tenure of the former DOS, for whatever reason. Now things seem to have begun to change. I intend to allow some time for the problems to be solved, before I assume the worst.

If I am wrong, and these people are rotten, it will soon be apparent.

I just don't see it. 
« Last Edit: November 05, 06:34 AM by yshilova » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 06:47 AM »

I'm just wandering, why the moderator has removed the posts with the opposite opinion? For example, tjharrell wrote:

Re: I Do Not Recommend Speak Up
« Reply #11 on: Today at 02:44 PM » Quote Modify Remove 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can only speak for myself.
Speak-Up has treated me fairly to this point. I like working there. They paid for my 3 year visa, and even gave me the money in advance for the trip to Poland. When I was short money, they advanced me money from my next month's salary. I have been well treated.

I haven't had the same bad experiences, nor do I feel the same anger. I have nothing to really complain about, in spite of some people's attempts to make me think and feel otherwise.

The contract that was handed out today is a work in process. We were told to make comments and return it. The process isn't finished. It is a little early to make the judgment of malicious intent.

I don't buy the evil empire of language schools premise. All the problems that occurred were under the tenure of the former DOS, for whatever reason. Now things seem to have begun to change. I intend to allow some time for the problems to be solved, before I assume the worst.

If I am wrong, and these people are rotten, it will soon be apparent.

I just don't see it. 

Do you want me to tell you, babe?
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 08:09 AM »

I'm just wandering, why the moderator has removed the posts with the opposite opinion? For example, tjharrell wrote:

Re: I Do Not Recommend Speak Up
« Reply #11 on: Today at 02:44 PM » Quote Modify Remove 


Hello Yulia:

The post you refer to was not deleted.  You are looking in the wrong place, try this thread:

 http://expatua.com/forum/i-recommend/i-do-not-recommend-speak-up-t2730.0.html#lastPost

- Ed
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 08:48 AM »

Thank you, Ed.
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 09:56 AM »

Thank you, Ed.


Welcome aboard, Yulia. We usually introduce ourselves in the "Introductions".

If you are authorised to speak on the Company's behalf, it would be nice to learn what "Speak Up" has to say with regard to the earlier post.
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 02:17 AM »

Just to clarify for everone
yshilova
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is the marketing director for Speak Up and was steered here by user tjharrell
« Last Edit: November 06, 03:12 AM by Phasar » Logged

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