vacancy

[Moving]

I do not understand your point Ecocks, I dunno how things are in Kiev but I make you sure SERIOUS business in Moscow carry their interviews at the firm and that the boss is too busy to think about the hottie showing up. Many times the boss is actually a woman.

Anyway whats so naive in some of the statements before (RJM) it is to blame the man whilst, in my own humble experience, i have actually met ladies/girls who for getting a job were simply up for everything. it is very naive to think a man covering a high position in nowadays Russia has to beg for a woman and very naive to think that it is NOT actually the woman using her body as a way to obtain the desired results.

[ecocks]

My point was that you cannot dismiss anyone who interviews in restaurants or hotel rooms as being less than serious nor angling for something "on the side". 

As for naive, I have bad news for you.  A LOT of powerful, rich men systematically abuse their power and postion in this fashion unless held back by the law and society's views of their actions.  Evidence Bill Clinton for example.  While he got away with it for political reasons, he stands as a casebook study in this instance.  The cases that come up often involve men who would seem to have no problem "geting it" for free yet seem compelled to coerce sexual favors from subordinates due to mental problems. 

[Moving]

Ecocks no one is denying that. but it is funny how men are to blame and women innocent.

BillClinton has committed NO abuse at all, he just got a BJ from an adult CONSENSUAL female.

[ecocks]

Wrong.

Simply, wrong.  Like many other laymen you ignore some key facts.  1.  He was in the position of power - i.e. senior in the work relationship. 2. It occurred in his office at the workplace.  3, Consent has nothing to do with it under American law.  She may have consented at the time, however she was damaged in the relationship - mentally, financially and perhaps physically.  4. Any other executive would be suspended without any question pending inquiry and would have most probably been discharged.  She would have definitely been found to have been wronged had this gone to a regular Civil Service hearing and/or court.

Under American law he definitely crossed the line of appropriate behavior.  Personnel Managers and lawyers understand this even if he, his political party and many citizens pretended not to.

I strongly suspect Monica is set for life now.  Notice there has been nothing from her in a couple of years?  My guess, along with others, is that she was paid handsomely to drop consideration of a law suit against the government for sexual harassment. 

[editor_moscow]

Wow - I can probably vie for a lot of woman who would hate to have you as a boss Moving. That is a pretty warped take on what clearly was not your typical consensual relationship, but rather a situation involving intimidation coming from a power figure to a subordinate - in this case, a simple college intern.

I agree with Ed that many good meetings, including first acquaintances and interviews, have occurred in cafes and restaurants. This is very much the case here, where business deals are often concluded under such circumstances. With respect to interviews, while the norm certainly may be holding such a meeting in an office environment, this is not always the case. Especially when it comes to private contracts, freelance hires, work proposed 'under the table', and instances where a supervisor wants to check out the personality of the hiree in a situation that will be common for them in their work (i.e. for those who will be on business dates in exactly that same environment) then such locations for meetings are quite common.

In any case, Moving - I sentence you to be born a Ukrainian woman in your next lifetime.   

[Moving]

Wrong.

Simply, wrong.  Like many other laymen you ignore some key facts.  1.  He was in the position of power - i.e. senior in the work relationship. 2. It occurred in his office at the workplace.  3, Consent has nothing to do with it under American law.  She may have consented at the time, however she was damaged in the relationship - mentally, financially and perhaps physically.  4. Any other executive would be suspended without any question pending inquiry and would have most probably been discharged.  She would have definitely been found to have been wronged had this gone to a regular Civil Service hearing and/or court.

Under American law he definitely crossed the line of appropriate behavior.  Personnel Managers and lawyers understand this even if he, his political party and many citizens pretended not to.

I strongly suspect Monica is set for life now.  Notice there has been nothing from her in a couple of years?  My guess, along with others, is that she was paid handsomely to drop consideration of a law suit against the government for sexual harassment. 

replying your message in details would require lots of effort. at least, unlikely to others, you had the decency to state "under the american (bigot) law". because NO EUROPEAN has ever considered BillClinton as someone who committed an ABUSE (what a word, most loved by Americans!!!) and this tell you a lot how, that American law you proclaim is nothing but ridicolous.

Also I do not get why getting "handsomely" compensated is a damage

Have you ever wondered why the Lewinsky's deal was a scandal in the US whilst the most of us (western europeans) were either smiling or wondering "how bigots are the Americans"?

[Moving]

Editor Moscow...here we are with another example of Americaness which is to blame for putting shame on the good Americans.

Intimidation towards a subordinate, a poor college intern...what else?

[editor_moscow]

Really... another example of 'Americaness' as you so put it? I'm as American as you are Irish dude!!!!!  You are just too funny. Obviously all you are interested in is American-bashing, so why don't you just start up a new thread (only to have it deleted) instead of wasting everyone's time bashing the good ol' USA on this one.

Cheers

[Vera]

Perhaps she indeed was intimidated. Bill and Monica case is the most widely -known but there were many more involving senators and their interns. I know the article is a bit long but read it and you will understand that just maybe she was not so consenting after all but really a young intern who was afraid.

CHANDRA LEVI, LORI KLAUSUTIS, PIXIE GRISMORE


"
Chandra Levy was a young, vibrant young woman from Modesto, California, who went to the nation's capitol to do an internship with the Public Affairs Office at the Federal Bureau of Prisons. At the same time, she was also working on a Master's Degree from the University of Southern California in public administration. As many young interns who go to Washington, Chandra was excited, energetic and plunged full steam ahead into her new life and activities.

All of that changed and tragically, on the eve of her return to California to attend graduation, Chandra went missing. Despite massive resources and manpower, this young woman with her whole future ahead of her, simply vanished. During the investigation and as facts began to emerge, shocking revelations were revealed: Chandra had been having a romantic relationship with a congressman, Gary Condit. The 53-year old House Democrat represented California's 18th District from 1989 until 2002.

It has been three years since Chandra Levy was last seen alive in Washington, DC. Her skeletal remains were finally found on May, 22, 2002 in Rock Creek Park. Her killer has never been found. At the time of her disappearance, Chandra had just lost her internship with the Bureau of Prisons and found out she would not be given full time employment at that agency. She planned to return home for her college graduation on May 11, 2001.

There was much speculation following the disappearance of Chandra because of her work at the Bureau of Prisons. Chandra's co workers at the Bureau of Prisons praised her work and noted that Chandra was very computer literate. Her last duties at BOP before her disappearance involved helping arrange media coverage of Timothy McVeigh's execution originally scheduled for May 16, 2001. Due to the discovery of documents that had not been given to McVeigh's defense team, his execution was rescheduled and carried out on June 11, 2001.

Rumors ran strong with speculation about the date of Chandra's disappearance (April 30, 2001), McVeigh's two execution dates and Condit's much touted People Magazine interview September 9, 2001 in which Condit indicated Chandra had a strong interest in the McVeigh case. The massive publicity evaporated when America was attacked September 11, 2001.

Most political pundits and insiders believe that Chandra's disappearance and Condit's affair with the 24-year intern old led to his defeat for reelection to Congress. Throughout the controversy swirling around Condit and Chandra's disappearance, Condit remained as a member on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

 

Lori Klausutis

Another intern death received very little media attention outside the congressional district of former U.S. Congressman Joe Scarborough in Northwest Florida.

Lori Klausutis was an intern who had been working in Congressman Scarborough's office as a constituent services coordinator since May, 1999. Due to Congressman Scarborough's shocking announcement he was retiring from Congress, Lori was excited about a new job possibility. She was married, lived in a nice home and was active in her Catholic Church congregation. Lori's husband, Dr. Timothy Klausutis worked in research and development at Eglin AFB. A seemingly idyllic life - until the morning of July 19, 2001 when Lori was found dead in Scarborough's congressional offices.

 

Lori's death was ruled accidental. Conflicting statements were released to the local press by Dr. Michael Berkland, the medical examiner, who reached this conclusion: Dr. Berkland, speculated that Lori had suffered an abnormal heart rhythm, due to a previously undiagnosed heart condition, causing her to fall, striking her head against a desk. This caused a blow to the head severe enough to cause death.

Many found this finding disturbing as there was a 7 1/2" gash on the wrong side of her head where she supposedly fell and hit it on a desk. Further dissatisfaction was expressed due to Dr. Berkland's own questionable background:

He was fired as Medical Examiner in Jackson County Missouri in 1996. In 1998 the state of Missouri revoked his license to practice for a minimum of six years. He was suspended as Medical Examiner in Florida for having failed to report that he was under investigation. The revocation of his license imperiled at least nine criminal convictions in Missouri.

In Special Report published on American Politics Journal, August 8, 2001, "Never Bound by the Truth", Chris George and Denis Wright further supplied proof of Dr. Berkland's troubling medical history including two cases in which a reversal of judgment has been sought based on false testimony by Dr. Berkland. While the case is officially closed, there continues to be a demand that it be reopened and an impartial investigation be conducted.

Rumors and speculation ran wild in Scarborough County regarding a relationship between Lori and Joe. Despite his recent reelection in 2000, a scant few months later, amidst rumors of infidelity with an office worker and then divorce, Scarborough shocked everyone by announcing his retirement from Congress. His job as publisher of the Independent Florida Sun also became part of his past when Scarborough announced his resignation in order to spend more time with his sons.

Joe Scarborough can now been seen weeknights on MSNBC as host of Scarborough Country.

Pixie Grismore

Mary Beth Grismore, 26 years old, was strangled May 3, 1978 in Ohio. Her body was found in the trunk of a car. Mary Beth was known by her friends as Pixie for her sunny disposition. Patrick Ralston came under suspicion after he admitted to having a romantic affair with Pixie. Both Pixie and Ralston were married to someone else at the time, but decided to have a farewell get together and end their relationship. This meeting took place at the Holiday Inn in Cloverdale, Indiana on February 16, 1978.

In an effort to get the FBI looking in another direction, Ralston stunned the FBI with a story that Pixie had told Ralston she had met with Sen. Birch Bayh in a bar at an Indianapolis motel, they partied and Pixie slept with the senator. The FBI confirmed that B.E. Bayh of the U.S. Senate did indeed stay at the Indianapolis Airport Holiday Inn on the date given by Ralston. At this time of Pixie's tryst with Sen. Birch Bayh, his wife, Marvella, was dying of cancer.

According to veteran journalist, H.J. Halterman, also a contributing editor for Worldnetdaily.com's Dispatches Magazine:

"By dragging the senator into the investigation, Ralston virtually guaranteed the end of FBI consideration of his past relationship with the murdered woman. If Ralston had ever been charged with the crime, he would only have had to point out that Sen. Bayh's brief but intimate relationship with Pixie was at least as strong a motive for murder as Ralston's own affair with the dead victim. Since Pixie had been a county coordinator for Sen. Bayh and had been seen in public with him, any such revelation could have left the senator's political future as dead as Pixie Grismore."

Halterman had some other comments about this tangled affair:

"Even though then-Sen. Bayh headed the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and was in charge of the oversight committee that supposedly supervises the CIA, NSA and, oh yeah, the FBI, all their investigation couldn't catch the killer -- or killers. But at least the investigators kept Pat Ralston's romantic connection to the victim, and especially her association with former Sen. Bayh, as a closely held secret."

Sen. Birch Bayh subsequently became the Governor of Indiana and boss of any of Indiana's state police agencies that might have investigated Pixie's murder. The Bayh political dynasty continued when his son, Evan, was elected as Governor of Indiana for two terms (1989-1997). While Governor, Evan Bayh appointed one of the witnesses in the case, P.A. Mack, known as his father's "fixer-upper" as a trustee at Indiana University and Patrick Ralston as head of Indiana's Department of Natural Resources in 1989.

But, the story doesn't end there according to Halterman:

"Ralston became the Democratic Party chairman of Indiana's Vigo County -- the Bayh family powerbase -- in January 1995. Ralston, as county party chairman, was instrumental in fund-raising efforts on behalf of newly-elected Indiana Gov. Frank O' Bannon, formerly lieutenant governor for Evan Bayh. O' Bannon, with political considerations involving both his old boss and a key fund-raising party chairman, had been reported to be considering the reappointment of Ralston as DNR director, but that was not to be: On Feb. 21, 1997, 19 years after Pixie Grismore's final party with her friends in Terre Haute, Ralston was instead announced as the new governor's choice to be the director of the Indiana State Emergency Management Agency."

Evan Bayh was elected to the U.S. Senate in November 1998 and is running for reelection this November.

There is no statue of limitations on murder. Pixie's murder is considered a cold case and remains unsolved.

 

 

[ecocks]

First, you need to go back and look up the word, bigot.  You aren't using it correctly.  The bigotry being exhibited is coming from you in this instance and is blatantly anti-American.  

Second, the "damage" financially occurred when it became impossible for her to continue work in her job as a White House intern due to the publicity since her employment prospects were definitely damaged as a result of this incident.  Maybe in Europe losing your job is just cause for a beer but in America most people consider it negative.

Third, since it occurred in America, no one there really cares much what Europeans think about it.  He was our President, sorry a spectacle as he was, and was our problem to deal with.  unfortunately, it was one of those times when politics and payoffs interfered with the proper functioning of the law.  

Fourth, interesting to know you think abuse is a funny word.  It says a lot about your character and, coupled with your age of consent remark from before, gives many people still more clues as to your personality.

I am happy if Monica got her payoff since she was badly abused by someone who should have been more responsible in his judgment and actions.  She received her Masters IN Psychlogy from the London School of Economics a couple of years ago and is trying to "live down" her reputation in order to establish herself as something other than a poster child for abused women.  It will haunt her the rest of her life.As for whether the law is ridiculous or not, I will refrain from taking pot shots at Italy's laws.  We generally like our laws and believe in them.  You don't, "Well hey, more power to you."  However, don't be surprised if someday this attitude haunts you when it is applied to your country or actions.  What goes around, comes around.  

For Editor: Yeah, it would be poetic justice if he is a women in this type social culture next time around.  Funny!

              

[Moving]

Dear Editor I am not interested at all in American-bashing, I am part of those Europeans who P.Roth defined "enough culturally sophisticated not to think all Americans are dumb and pro-Bush" (dont remember the exaxt phrasing). Also I have good American friends, I am big fan of American literature and I try to be as objective as possible.

Having said that it is clear that if a whole continent (Europe in this case) thinks that BillClinton has committed NO abuse, this should lead the American population to some self-questioning/analysis rather than portraying others as bashers.

So Ecocks since it was your president and it was a question of "domestic jurisdiction" next time refrain from complaining about the country you currently live in and pretending to impose your "high american ethical standards" to the rest of the world. because we also do not give a damn thing if a US employer cant write an ad where he/she requires no Blacks or ugly women. Luckily Europe is still not that sick.

[Moving]

LOL LOL LOL

an internet forum say nothing about my personality, but really not up for justifying myself. you think what you want Ecocks.

when in Moscow and accused of verbal abuse by the American company i was working for i was shocked

apparently in the US is a verbal abuse to say to your subordinate "damn, you gotta do this now!"

the question still stands:
Why American culture is perceived even by educated Western Europeans as hypocritical/bigot and contradictory?

[Vera]

Dear Editor I am not interested at all in American-bashing, I am part of those Europeans who P.Roth defined "enough culturally sophisticated not to think all Americans are dumb and pro-Bush" (dont remember the exaxt phrasing). Also I have good American friends, I am big fan of American literature and I try to be as objective as possible.

Having said that it is clear that if a whole continent (Europe in this case) thinks that BillClinton has committed NO abuse, this should lead the American population to some self-questioning/analysis rather than portraying others as bashers.

So Ecocks since it was your president and it was a question of "domestic jurisdiction" next time refrain from complaining about the country you currently live in and pretending to impose your "high american ethical standards" to the rest of the world. because we also do not give a damn thing if a US employer cant write an ad where he/she requires no Blacks or ugly women. Luckily Europe is still not that sick.

Has anyone noticed how stylistically Moving's posts differ form one from the other …..I would say drastically ...You know what I mean?...It leads me to believe there are a couple of Movings operating there.

[ecocks]

Re: Chandra Levy and others

There are several other incidents where coverups (finanical, homicidal, intimidation or otherwise) appear to have been involved.  As the poster brings out, the Chandra Levy situation is a bit more speculative and lacks substantive evidence.  Still, the circumstances obviously present possibilities which are less than savory here.

I know a couple of guys here in Ukraine who have agreed that sex within the workplace is not really normal but certainly more prevalent than in the West.  As elsewhere, it can involve more money, promotions and perks but, long-term, it builds resentment and lack of loyalty among the employee population.  The general attitude here does seem to condone or at least accept it more than some other places.  However, the incredibly funny thing is how many people believe that this is uniquely that of a limited number of cultures.  It is all evolutionary and relates to "freedom."  Freedom has nothing to do with America in this sense.  Up until the 50's it was viewed much the same way as it is here today.  No revisionist history here.  I often advise students to read Upton Sinclair's, The Jungle. This gives readers a pretty fair, nearly brutal portrait of where America was at the turn of the century and exemplifies what we went through building our country.  

I had a discussion with a Ukrainian a few months ago and finally they were so frustrated they voiced that it just wasn't "fair" that America had so much but we didn't really deserve it.  I responded asking whether they thought that Americans just went to sleep at night and little gremlins and fairies put money in our cash registers, manufactured space shuttles and built all these wonderful houses and apartment buildings.  They thought about it a minute and, finally, said that was an interesting point.

Keep your perspective, but consider situations through the eyes of others.  

[ecocks]

LOL LOL LOL

an internet forum say nothing about my personality, but really not up for justifying myself. you think what you want Ecocks.

when in Moscow and accused of verbal abuse by the American company i was working for i was shocked

apparently in the US is a verbal abuse to say to your subordinate "damn, you gotta do this now!"

the question still stands:
Why American culture is perceived even by educated Western Europeans as hypocritical/bigot and contradictory?

Everything you say and do expresses your personality, even when you are acting.  Get with the new millenium.

And, yes, we don't allow subordinates to be sworn at in the workplace.  If it was an American company, perhaps you should have considered that you would be subject to American standards of behavior in their workplace.  If it is/was too much for you, "move" to another company.

It is perhaps a bit of a generalization to make the statement that the "whole continent [of Europeans]" thinks something...yada, yada, yada.

Since you love sweeping generalizations so much, maybe you should question the inverse.  If 300 million Americans agree that workplace abuse involving vulgar/obscene language and sexual stereotyping is inappropriate, is it just slightly possible that this might, in fact, be true?  Stretch your horizons for a few minutes.

I cheerfully and willingly discuss this over coffee, beers, steaks or ice cream WHENEVER I find any educated Western Europeans to discuss it with. However, if you want to go violent and start gnashing your teeth and spitting on people, take it elsewhere. Too funny!

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