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Author Topic: EU states must let in citizens' spouses - court  (Read 892 times)
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« on: July 25, 07:10 AM »

BRUSSELS, July 25 (Reuters) - People from outside the
European Union married to the bloc's citizens must be allowed to
stay in an EU country where their spouse resides, the EU's top
court ruled on Friday.
    The ruling is expected to put pressure on some EU states
which, seeking to curb flows of immigrants, restrict the
spouses' residence rights
    The European Court of Justice ruled in favour of four
African men who married EU citizens in Ireland but were later
refused a permit to stay in that country.
    The Irish justice ministry had argued that under the
country's law such permits could be granted only to people who
had been lawful residents of another EU member states.
    But the court said the provision breached the EU's directive
on free movement of citizens.
    "A non-Community spouse of a citizen of the Union can move
and reside with that citizen in the Union without having
previously been lawfully resident in a member states," the
Luxembourg-based court said in a statement.
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matlockk
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 08:29 AM »

Don't hold your breath. I'm sure Her Majesty's Govt will find something in the small print. Always amazes me how the Daily Mail reading fraternity in my local pub back home are suprised my wife doesn't come for the weekend with me. " But she's your wife. She doesn't need a visa"  Now, that would be nice.

Uk soft on immigrants, ha ha!
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 10:35 AM »

Don't hold your breath. I'm sure Her Majesty's Govt will find something in the small print. Always amazes me how the Daily Mail reading fraternity in my local pub back home are suprised my wife doesn't come for the weekend with me. " But she's your wife. She doesn't need a visa"  Now, that would be nice.

Uk soft on immigrants, ha ha!

There is no way she cannot come with you for a holiday (not too long, mind you). Can you advise whether her request for a visa was refused?

Your fellow Daily Mail readers ought to know better. Maybe you haven't told them your wife still holds a Ukrainian passport. When she applies for her visa, you have to provide a letter in support of her application in the normal way, including various documents showing you are able to support her.

It isn't too bad for we were just visited by my stepdaughter and "step"niece, two young single girls without any problem.
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 10:40 AM »

Don't hold your breath. I'm sure Her Majesty's Govt will find something in the small print. Always amazes me how the Daily Mail reading fraternity in my local pub back home are suprised my wife doesn't come for the weekend with me. " But she's your wife. She doesn't need a visa"  Now, that would be nice.

Uk soft on immigrants, ha ha!

There is no way she cannot come with you for a holiday (not too long, mind you). Can you advise whether her request for a visa was refused?

Your fellow Daily Mail readers ought to know better. Maybe you haven't told them your wife still holds a Ukrainian passport. When she applies for her visa, you have to provide a letter in support of her application in the normal way, including various documents showing you are able to support her.

It isn't too bad for we were just visited by my stepdaughter and "step"niece, two young single girls without any problem.

I think you missed my point. They think she doesn't need a visa at all and that anyone who is married to a Brit can waltz in the country, get work, settle etc. BTW, she's Russian.
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 11:04 AM »

Sorry, Keith, I did indeed miss the point!

I see it now, albeit rather belatedly. Apologies again ............ must check whether I took my pills this morning!
« Last Edit: July 25, 01:11 PM by Carlusha » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 12:10 PM »

Agree with Keith.

I am off to the UK on 5th August to do a few things and planned to go alone, but then at the last minute my dear wife decides she wants to come. Ok , no problem all we need to do is get a visa and talk to those nice people at UK Visas in Kyiv.
So, made an application on line last night and hey the first appointment is only available on 13 August Cry
Subject to successfully obtaining visa she will fly later to join me. Or I will have to stay and wait.

And all because of a little piece of paper in her passport.
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 01:34 PM »

Know the problem myself. Got married in Italy, then moved to Spain, where we still could not get residency because the UK needs to have the marriage registered under current Spanish law. Now in Kiev and will see what happens
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 02:37 PM »

Spooky - yesterday I finished completing Anechka's visa application to come with me to the UK in October for my youngest daughter's 18th, my brother's 40th and my 41st.  I said to her, we had better do it now and get it to the UK consol in case of delays.  Having read BK's post I will make my next trip to Kyiv sooner rather than later (and stop finding excuses to delay it)  Shocked
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 09:51 AM »

Just for those who are not aware. Visa applicatiosn are dealt with by UK Visas, a seperate organisation from the Embassy and Consular Office. Plus ONLY the person making the application can enter the building now.
I already have many people involved in making sure we have all the documents EXACTLY right, because the nice people at UK Visas will look for any reason to refuse the application. Embarrassed

Funny thing this week. My company provided a letter of support to a Ukraine national to visit the UK again.
He has properties in the UK, plus his son attends one of the famous private schools. So what did UK Visas do?
Gave him a visa for two years....great well done, but then only 6 months for his wife and only a one year student visa for his son.  Where is the logic?  I would dearly like to meet some of those people who work in the visa office.

If there are any members or guests from the British Diplomatic community on here please do not be afraid to try and explain?
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 01:31 PM »

I would dearly like to meet some of those people who work in the visa office.

If there are any members or guests from the British Diplomatic community on here please do not be afraid to try and explain?

Absolutely agree with you 100% BK.  If Anechka is refused entry (she has been before when she was a Russian passport holder) on this occasion, considering it is not just "any old family reunion", as soon as Ukraine becomes a visaless EU member, I will automatically take up the Ukrainian citizenship I am entitled to (albeit declining at the moment for obvious reasons).  After all, I would still be entitled to the 90/180 day rule as a Ukrainian visting the UK and in 3 years in Ukraine plus a few in Russia I have spent exactly 23 days in the UK during that period (and that was more than enough to be honest  Roll Eyes)
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 03:19 PM »

Just out of interest - here is an email I sent to the boy Miliband currently "running" the FCO:

As the below is now a stated case in EU law, could you please advise me on the questions which follow it:
 
BRUSSELS, July 25 (Reuters) - People from outside the
European Union married to the bloc's citizens must be allowed to
stay in an EU country where their spouse resides, the EU's top
court ruled on Friday.
    The ruling is expected to put pressure on some EU states
which, seeking to curb flows of immigrants, restrict the
spouses' residence rights
    The European Court of Justice ruled in favour of four
African men who married EU citizens in Ireland but were later
refused a permit to stay in that country.
    The Irish justice ministry had argued that under the
country's law such permits could be granted only to people who
had been lawful residents of another EU member states.
    But the court said the provision breached the EU's directive
on free movement of citizens.
    "A non-Community spouse of a citizen of the Union can move
and reside with that citizen in the Union without having
previously been lawfully resident in a member states," the
Luxembourg-based court said in a statement.
 
 
Do I still need to provide financial statements etc. etc. for my Ukrainian wife to obtain a visa to visit the UK as, according to the ruling, (unless she presents a threat to the UK via terrorism etc.), she can live there whether she has £10 Million or £10.00 with me should/when/if I chose to return unless the UK intends to restrict the movement of a UK/EU citizen as per the ruling.
 
I can see no reason why my/her/our personal finances etc. need to be scrutinised any longer in order to get a visa to visit the UK, as stated, it now makes no difference how much money she has should we ever return there permanently, I would therefore consider it an unwarranted infringement of my "EU citizen" civil liberties and an unnecessary invasion of privacy when applying for a visa for her henceforth.  (This would probably be upheld by the EU Court in light of the above ruling).
 
She will be submitting a visa application soon for a visit to the UK (with absolutely no intention of either of us staying), and I assume in line with the above mentioned ruling, the relative Visa body has been instructed to allow all spouses requiring visas for entry into the UK for whatever reason to adhere to the ruling and ensure my, (as an EU citizen and as per the ruling, therefore her) unrestricted movement within the EU, which at present still includes the UK.
 
It remains to be seen if the new agreed Ukrainian/EU visa tariff of 35 Euros will be levied in Kyiv or not for the visa.
 
I await your prompt reply (as do tens of thousands of internet linked expats married to non-EU citizens).
 
Regards,
 
 Smiley



I will await the reply  Roll Eyes

The email address if any Brit wants to annoy the FCO with the same questions is:

msu.correspondence@fco.gov.uk

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


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rjm
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 05:00 PM »

Dont hold your breath G!

By all accounts they are too busy in "Shooters" bragging about what they earn most Saturday nights!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just for those who are not aware. Visa applicatiosn are dealt with by UK Visas, a seperate organisation from the Embassy and Consular Office. Plus ONLY the person making the application can enter the building now.
I already have many people involved in making sure we have all the documents EXACTLY right, because the nice people at UK Visas will look for any reason to refuse the application. Embarrassed

Funny thing this week. My company provided a letter of support to a Ukraine national to visit the UK again.
He has properties in the UK, plus his son attends one of the famous private schools. So what did UK Visas do?
Gave him a visa for two years....great well done, but then only 6 months for his wife and only a one year student visa for his son.  Where is the logic?  I would dearly like to meet some of those people who work in the visa office.

If there are any members or guests from the British Diplomatic community on here please do not be afraid to try and explain?
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BritKyiv
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 11:17 PM »

Lets just see what happens when my wife visits UK Visas on 13 August?
We all know they have a job to do and we all want them to do that job correctly.

We will make the application correctly and hope they grant a visa.
If not, it willbe VERY interesting to find out why?

Will keep you posted
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 08:13 PM »

I wonder if the UK Visas office 'Bump' applicants off the appointments list?

I Ukrainian friend called me this morning in frustration. He had just flew back to Kyiv from France ONLY to go to his appointment at UK Visas for his visa application interview. When he turned up his name was not on the 'security' list so they would not let him into the building. So, he did what many Ukrainians do when they have a problem with anything British........he called me!!! (they think I have a direct line to the Embassy!!!) Embarrassed

So, trying to help I called the 'Call Centre" that looks after enquiries for UK Visas in Ukraine.
(The Call Centre does not open until 10.0oam, is a premium cost line (6UAH per minute) AND for some reason you cannot call froma Kyiv Star number Huh.

After I got through and explained the problem. The first thing the call centre operator said (probably due to the training she received) was "YOU must have made a mistake in the application", YOU must do it all again.
Realising I was getting no where, I did eventually call a senior person only because I have his private number and he did explain what to do.

My friend (Still waiting outside the UK Visas Office in Kyiv) now tells me that 5 other people had the same experience that same morning.

The best thing I managed to get for him was another appointment two days later.

So beware when helping to get visas for wifes and friends etc, it can all go wrong at the last minute, even when you have the confirmation documents in your hand its no good if you are not ON THE LIST.

The worst thing is that it reminded me of the dreaded CALL CENTRE MENTALITY that we have back in the UK, where you can NEVER get to speak to a decision maker or anyone that wants to give you the info you really need.

If I had not been around to help my Ukrainain friend, he would have had no idea what to do and no one to speak to in UK Visas.

BEWARE
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 09:51 PM »

And unfortunately the "call centre mentality" has been widely exported to other countries Cry Cry Cry

on the other hand, as a EU citizens who has lived extensively in the UK, I must admit that comparing to the average service citizens get in mediterranean Europe, UK has ALWAYS shown an almost impeccable service.
I dealt with CitizensAdviceBureau, TownHall, Tax Office and others, all staff was highly professional, all answers clear and fast.

Dunno about immigration office though...

Do you think UK has the smoothest/more efficient bureacracy in Western Europe?

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